Music Contribution

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WKFO
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Re: Music Contribution

Post by WKFO » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:26 am

Addition to impaktor's post above: Please note that my work so far has had the limiting factor of the original soundtrack style having been established long ago. I did not attempt to make any major changes to the soundtrack by myself as the only person who does music (except maybe the separation of ambient music categories), but now that there are more people (and therefore an increased music production potential), please enjoy more freedom than I did previously.

sturnclaw
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Re: Music Contribution

Post by sturnclaw » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:57 pm

Cross-posting from IRC (as I've just discovered the thread):

franzopow[m]: just got a chance to listen to amadeo's music! If there's one thing that struck me
right between the eyes, it's that it sounds *really* similar to Rimworld's soundtrack :D
Not that that's a bad thing, mind you! I'm not sure what portion of Pioneer he's trying to compose
for - if it's for "docked" music we could definitely use the western feel of it for frontier
outposts (and some of the background drones / beeps work well for that), or possibly for planetary
flight with other ships...

Thank you both for contributing to the music in this area! Our current musical style is a little... "scattered", let's say, and definitely some of the existing tracks don't go well with the others. Here's a bit more of a detailed feedback:

Franzo: I really like your track as a "deep space" ambience - the transponder beeping in the background, the uncomplicated near-soundscape, the occasional contribution by other instruments - it's a very relaxing track well suited for a long trip between planets. For that reason, I don't think it would work well as menu music, as it's a little too "empty"; for the menu I'd want something that uses a "warmer" instrument and has a slightly more upbeat tempo and melody. For a more concrete reference than my stumbling in the dark trying to define terms, 'spacedpiano.ogg' by s20dan, 'Void_Ocean.ogg' by WKFO, and 'Skies.ogg' are some examples of the more fitting tracks (albeit colored by my bias towards synth / electronica).

After you cleaned up the bitcrusher it's sounding much better! I'm not sure if this is an opinion you share, but I think the piano notes could use a bit more processing to sound slightly more electronic and futuristic than the distinctive "clunk" of the high-octave ranges of a conventional piano... Just not with the bitcrusher! It's up to you if you want to go this route, as the track is already sounding exceptionally good.

Meddison: Your track has me feeling a little more torn - for a "deep space" ambience it's really got a space-western feel (and certain guitar notes sound like they're a dead ringer for Alistair Lindsay's Rimworld soundtrack!), but most if not all of Pioneer's music stays away from the western genre and is more straightforward electronica or classical. It could work in a "lawless" system, but I think in its current state I'd much prefer to use it as ambient music around a travelling trader caravan or something... which we don't actually have in game yet!

I don't think it represents Pioneer's musical or visual style well enough to use as a menu track (sorry for the harsh criticism), however I think you could definitely extend it a bit and mix in some more elements to give the suggestion of being planetside and it'd be a great track for impaktor's proposed "Bar" interface or as an ambient track to play when docked or approaching the surface outposts that we've been brainstorming about.

On the whole, I hope I haven't been too harsh with the criticism; please take my feedback with a grain of salt - Pioneer is definitely a committee driven process (hence why it's taken so long :D) so while these are my opinions, other devs may well have different ones. I personally really like the electronica/synth tracks in Pioneer's current repository and would love to see more, as that's the genre that speaks "space" to me the most, but I also really like the style of music you've both composed for certain areas.

Meddison, it might take a while longer to actually be able to *use* the track you're working on, as none of the really fitting locations have actually been created in the game yet! Don't be discouraged though, I'd rather have the music and be waiting on implementation, then have the implementation and not have any music!

impaktor
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Re: Music Contribution

Post by impaktor » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:25 am

I really like both tracks and am very impressed! Now, I haven't checked how the transition from these tracks to the current music we have would sound like?

As for scenes and settings, I have a branch with a pirate system, from a few years back. I had planned to add some more stuff (hidden compartment equipment for smugeling) to that branch prior to merging.

Meddison
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Re: Music Contribution

Post by Meddison » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:39 pm

I'm glad you guys like my tracks!
Please check the new demo i made. The link is update with the new one (link in the first post)
I have to mix and master it but the final vibe will be this.
Please let me know.


@sturnclaw no worry for criticism, it's always important hear feedbacks by the people!
Anyway i don't know if could fits the "bar theme". Could sound western but it's a very dark mood track.
Maybe could be used for unxplored places, or pirate's base(?), or something "mysterious".
Maybe you can use it for the menù.. i don't know. I'll finish it and give it to you.

impaktor
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Re: Music Contribution

Post by impaktor » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:00 am

Listening to it now, I'm not good at finding stuff to improve, I just generally "like it", but I do wonder about music switching, i.e. it has ~1 second end where it rings out, so it's not like it can be on infinite loop when in some dark system / bar or wherever. I guess that's my main concern. I don't know how this is done in other games.

franzo
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Re: Music Contribution

Post by franzo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:40 am

impaktor wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:20 am
Welcome @meddison!

As I mentioned (to franzo) on IRC, now you three are the sole music "talent" in pioneer, which is quite an opportunity, since it means it's now up to you to shape pioneer's music to your desires.

It's probably good to find some common vision/process for music contributors, which could (is?) be documented on the wiki on music & sound contribution, and edit according to your desire (if anything written there is in direct conflict to what you want, check with WKFO first, as he looks to have most edits on it, to find common ground).
WKFO wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:26 am
Addition to impaktor's post above: Please note that my work so far has had the limiting factor of the original soundtrack style having been established long ago. I did not attempt to make any major changes to the soundtrack by myself as the only person who does music (except maybe the separation of ambient music categories), but now that there are more people (and therefore an increased music production potential), please enjoy more freedom than I did previously.
Thank you for the warm welcome.
I think that the tracks we made can blend in nicely with the pioneer soundtrack. We should just decide (or you should thinking about the best applications for this tracks) where we will put them in the game. I personally imagine the track I made playing while you fly around in the space..
sturnclaw wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:57 pm
After you cleaned up the bitcrusher it's sounding much better! I'm not sure if this is an opinion you share, but I think the piano notes could use a bit more processing to sound slightly more electronic and futuristic than the distinctive "clunk" of the high-octave ranges of a conventional piano... Just not with the bitcrusher! It's up to you if you want to go this route, as the track is already sounding exceptionally good.
Yeah, I agree with you about the bitcrusher stuff! I think that is sounding nice but I could try to find another route processing the piano sound, maybe with a distortion/Detune instead of the bitcrusher!
Thank you both for contributing to the music in this area! Our current musical style is a little... "scattered", let's say, and definitely some of the existing tracks don't go well with the others.
That's fine to not use my track as menu track.. we could create another one for that! Also, if WKFO agree, we can try to remove songs that don't go well with the others or try to use them in different areas.
As for scenes and settings, I have a branch with a pirate system, from a few years back. I had planned to add some more stuff (hidden compartment equipment for smugeling) to that branch prior to merging.
Would be nice to see a pirate system! We could go heavy with the soundtrack in that system! :D
Listening to it now, I'm not good at finding stuff to improve, I just generally "like it", but I do wonder about music switching, i.e. it has ~1 second end where it rings out, so it's not like it can be on infinite loop when in some dark system / bar or wherever. I guess that's my main concern. I don't know how this is done in other games.
Don't worry, it's easy to adjust it and make the loop! We will look into that after Amedeo completes the track!

WKFO
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Re: Music Contribution

Post by WKFO » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:38 am

Thank you both for contributing to the music in this area! Our current musical style is a little... "scattered", let's say, and definitely some of the existing tracks don't go well with the others.
That's fine to not use my track as menu track.. we could create another one for that! Also, if WKFO agree, we can try to remove songs that don't go well with the others or try to use them in different areas.
We can definitely try.

An important reason for some music directories being empty is that not all music transitions go well, so I just decide to let the game fall back to default. For example, I was especially not happy with space station music at first; but on the other hand, I didn't want to remove someone else's work without really knowing what I'm doing... So I just went with it, even contributed a few more songs myself in the same style for variation. This is probably the number one reason why "docked" is empty - transitions don't work with "near-spacestation".

Categories "near-planet" and "undocked" (both completely empty) has been candidates for complete removal in my mind. I tried them, feels like unnecessary music switching. "ship-destroyed" can (and I think should) stay, but has a very bad choice of music. I'm not against piano or classical music, they are just... out of place.

Above two paragraphs are my main problems with the soundtrack.

On ambient music... Well, they are not always "resonating" with each other (that's the best description I have, sorry); however, I don't think we should move anything from there before there is good enough material to replace what we take away from the mix. Ambient track variation doesn't feel as bad to me, and therefore I would prefer to leave those refinements to the last.

Those summarize my opinions - we can definitely try to relocate or remove tracks. However I'm not the only one here, so I would like to hear what you (or people who play with music on) think as well.

franzo
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Re: Music Contribution

Post by franzo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:06 pm

WKFO wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:38 am
Categories "near-planet" and "undocked" (both completely empty) has been candidates for complete removal in my mind. I tried them, feels like unnecessary music switching. "ship-destroyed" can (and I think should) stay, but has a very bad choice of music. I'm not against piano or classical music, they are just... out of place.
I agree with you. I would try to remove those piano pieces (at least some of them) and replace them with the other ambient tracks available in the folder.
They are out of place, that's true and they sound to me also a little bit too MIDI.. but that's just my opinion.
I think we should also listen to the opinions that others may have about this, as you said, and with more tracks coming we can try to change the style of the soundtrack a little bit.

I should play to Pioneer more to understand better those mechanics (Docking, Undocking music, near planet music Etc.).

franzo
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Re: Music Contribution

Post by franzo » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:10 pm

I updated my track. I tried to experiment with the piano and use flanger, phaser, and other tools but I did not like the output sound. I stick with the bitcrusher but I changed the type of the bitcrusher so the sound now it's slightly different.. I think it sounds nice like that now. The sound of the piano now is "darker" because of this bitcrusher change.

Let me know what you think!

franzo
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Re: Music Contribution

Post by franzo » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:27 pm

Hello! I've created a new track (that's really a demo) that can be used for the menu. I tried to stay close to spacepiano.ogg track..I think that it could work. Let me know!
The link is in the first post.

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