some (hopefully constructive) feedback

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some (hopefully constructive) feedback

Post by AL13N » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:19 pm

Some thoughts after starting to play this game for a bit.

I understand some things have already improved, but i'll just post my comments here, when the new release is there, (since i'm a distro packager), i'll package the new version and see how much it's improved, i guess...

1. when you're starting out, quests is the way to go, though it would seem normal if buying/selling should be the first thing to do... but for small ships it doesn't even make sense cause the docking fee/fuel is too expensive for that. (or maybe buy/sell should be more expensive so you actually make more money on it?

also, it would be great is starports on the same planet and/or in the same system would have slightly different prices too... like, it would make sense that non-planet stuff would have more import going on.

similarly fixing a ship is way too expensive for any kind of money you make. maybe larger ships (which need larger pad to land should maybe pay higher docking fee.

and also, some kind of loan/loadshark would also be nice. and some kind of impounding of your ship if you can't pay docking fee's or like if you can't pay loansharks, you get some consequences.

2. actually it would also be nice if there's some kind of progression? like if next to the 3 choices, maybe there's an extra choice "tutorial"? which could like start you off on a planet and you have a ship which is quite less powerful so you have to do smart orbiting and suborbital hops, where you could do some smaller scale cargo/people transport/quests which have more time. so that you have to like raise your orbit and then raise it at the correct time to get to mars or something (like, waiting until mars is closer; like it is now).

than after you get this done and make some small amounts of money, you could swap your ship for what you have now at start.

at the same time it could teach you to do suborbital hops and simple orbiting stuff to go to mars or something...

regarding this, it would be nice of the starports are marked on the planet in that planning screen, so you can plan a direction to go and do a simple suborbital hop and have maybe the markings i the UI so you can follow your planned route.

3. which brings me to something else, if there would be 2-body gravity (especially when planning) then you could effectively plan gravity assists.

which i should note the autopilot did some gravity assist, but it kinda crashes your ship...

4. also about combat. at the start if you bring documents, the guy attacks you, but seems to orbit your ship? it must have insane trusters to do that, it would be nice if you could follow it somehow and or evade better? also i tried targetting and it should my down view instead, maybe duplicate key binding, i haven't looked yet, or maybe i need to buy a targetting system first? also i didn't have missiles, so trying to shoot it, without any targetting is quite difficult.

well, i hope some of these suggestions would make it a bit easier to start to play.

PS: also, when you do have some kind of half-finished version, it might not be bad to suggest this game to a youtube influencer, like Wanderbot or something, they can get more people to play it and/or maybe people to help out will appear...



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Re: some (hopefully constructive) feedback

Post by impaktor » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:38 pm

1. commodity prices have changes massively since the version you're playing. You'll still need to do some missions to accumulate some cash to invest in commodities, I guess. Yes, we'd like in-system trading / price gradient, but is a bit complex, so will happen at some point in the future.

2. tutorial mode is something we'd like, and is on our to-do list.

4. I suck at combat, but there are people who are good at it, but setting enemy ship as nav target is a good habit in combat, I suspect.

PS. the game will always be "half finished", since there's always "twice more" to implement. Scott Manley played pioneer on his youtube (+1M subs) a few years ago.

Thanks for suggestions

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Re: some (hopefully constructive) feedback

Post by WKFO » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:53 pm

Thanks a lot for the feedback! I will try to talk about some of the points.

2. A tutorial would be lovely as impaktor said above.

I guess the Barnard's Star start was meant to be something like that kind of slow start (but not a tutorial) - however the space travel technology in Pioneer universe long surpassed the need for Hohmann maneuvers and even the most miserable ship can easily attain Sun escape velocity... probably more than once even. I don't know how a ship that's comparable to near-future spacecraft would fit in.

What's about to come with the new ship rebalance is that accelerations will be capped and a lot of ships won't be able to pull off some of the crazy high acceleration maneuvers they used to be able to do, so if you want to get into orbit after that point, you can try to make a good gravity turn. You will also have to descend and maneuver carefully around bodies with considerable gravity, and some of your thrusters might not even be able to counter the gravity if you are in a suborbital trajectory.

3. Autopilot does not have any gravity assist programmed in, so it is straight up a failure on the autopilot's side :P For now, I will advise you not to use autopilot to travel to stations/planets with short orbital periods. I observed that they confuse the simpleton autopilot a bit. If a space station is orbiting a planet crazy fast; target the planet first, enter orbit, then command the autopilot to go to the station. (or just fly manually)

4. You can set a ship as combat target (colored red) if you click on it, which shows a leading aim point to shoot your cannon towards; however the enemy will try to dodge so I suggest a bit of a spraying tactic. (You don't need a special equipment to target ships, but having a radar is good for situational awareness.) Beam weapons' beams travel instantly and if you are using one of those, just aim right on the target. While doing that, you should also constantly maneuver in various directions to dodge the enemy projectiles. It takes some practice.

Enemy ships are the same kind of ships that are available to the player (unless they are police vehicles), and their thrusters are the same kind as well. If they can orbit you, you can probably orbit them too; but the trending combat manuever happens to be "space jousting" (where you try to shoot your enemy within a short window while you zip by each other; then you turn back, accelerate again and repeat). Luckily, my observations about the upcoming ship rebalance shows that this will change quite a bit in a positive sense.

Unguided missiles are no use, and if you want to fight, please choose guided missiles or beam weapons.

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Re: some (hopefully constructive) feedback

Post by nozmajner » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:50 pm

For dogfight, I'd also mention that if you target them by ctrl+LMB, then it will be set as reference frame, so Set Speed mode will work relative to them. Match speed mode, you could say, but you can even set a relative speed. That helps a lot in my experience.
One caveat, if you are in Set Speed mode, using any thrusters manually will temporalily disengate Set Speed (not for turning, but translation)

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Re: some (hopefully constructive) feedback

Post by clausimu » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:25 am

I have to agree on the in-system trading. When I started out that was the first thing I tried, seemed kind of obvious. It was a bit disappointing to see the same prices. I remember the discussions about why it's complicated to add. But we should not give up on it.

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